Flint Hill Elementary School

ATTENDING: Committee members - Victoria Brombacher, Lois Rice, Bruce Wright, Edythe Frankel, David Gibson, Feliza Kepler, Gene Klein, Antonio Lizardi, and Joe Stowers.

Other attendees: Goldie Harrison, Rev. Culkin of St. Mark's Catholic Church, Inda Stagg, Ms. Barrett, and Martin Walsh of Walsh, Colucci, Stackhouse, Emrich & Lubeley, Louis J. Slade and an associate from Gorove/Slade Associates, Cathy Belgin, Fairfax County Office of Zoning Enforcement, and approximately 250-300 citizens.

The meeting was called to order at 7:30 by Mr. Stowers.

Mr. Stowers, the meeting chair, introduced himself as did each member of the Land Use Committee.

The meeting was devoted to a discussion of the St. Mark's Catholic Church Special Exception application SE 00-H-028 in order to add a nursery school and school of private education with an enrollment not to exceed 550 students daily to the existing church on Vale Rd.

There was general agreement to adhere to the proposed agenda.

A second meeting on the St. Mark's proposal is scheduled for Sept. 19 to hear additional comments and to formulate a recommendation if possible. It may necessary to have an additional meeting held closer to the Planning Commission meeting, which was deferred until Oct. 12.

Ms. Stagg of Walsh, Colucci, Stackhouse, Emrich & Lubeley gave a brief presentation. The Church property is currently zoned for R-1. The Application was accepted in June, and the Planning Commission meeting was deferred until Oct. 12. After the Planning Commission meeting, the Board of Supervisors hearing will be held. Father Culkin, pastor of St. Mark's Catholic Church is present. Until the 1990's, parishioners could send kids to other catholic schools, but there are too many children now.

Mr. O'Brien presented a view of plans. In the first design the new building was too close to the property line. Redesigned it to move buildings back.

Mr. Slade, transportation consultant, reviewed the traffic study. Mentioned that the proposed school will attract students from the surrounding area so that there should not be a net influx of students. Before conducting the study, the firm discussed with the County what issues were to be addressed. Amendments to the study will be made based on comments. It will be started after school is in session. It will be done in 2 1/2 weeks from today (approx. Sept. 17).

Comments from the audience (names may be spelled incorrectly).

Sandy Struckmeyer, Corsica St., Vale Road Coalition - St. Mark's Church Parishioner but speaking in opposition. Believes current plan will harm the environment and threaten safety of neighbors. Environmental issues - The building is very large and will ruin the character of the neighborhood. Water wells may be affected by runoff of stormwater.

Increased traffic - Additional traffic is a major concern. 5500 cars/day are now on Vale. Concerned about safety of school children. No transportation is provided for kids living w/in 1 mile of schools in the area. There are 179 at FH and 30-40 at Archer. Believes the traffic study is flawed. No school safety issues were addressed. Study should have included uncertainty measures. New study essential.

Compared the St. Mark's proposal with the Fairfax Christian school proposal. 576 student school at Vale and Hunter Mill, 42 undeveloped acres. The County said the plan was too intense. Hope committee weighs costs vs. benefits. Requests denial. Upset that Father Culkin didn't respond to letter requesting a delay.

Mr. Stowers asked the Church or it's representatives to respond. Mr. Walsh - there are distinctions between the Fairfax Christian school application and this one. Regarding pollution of water wells with heavy metals - ponds filter the runoff using Best Management Practices. Traffic - Disagrees that it is not inaccurate, the scope was dictated by the County. Will come up with an amended report.

Ed Kasnicki, former resident of the neighborhood. Mentioned that there are 23 families in the Vale Rd Coalition vs. 2600 families in the St. Mark's parish. Re: Trott Ave. pollution, the ground falls away from Trott Ave. Also, he wonders why there is no mention of pollutants from pesticides used in neighborhood gardens. Regarding public sewer and water, the residents didn't want to pay for hooking up to the County facilities.

At this point Mr Stowers said that comments should be limited to 2 minutes.

Ed Capers, Oak Valley Dr. Thinks that the Church needs to work better with the community, and that if a school is approved, a busing plan must be included.

Al Glavin, former Asst. Superintendent for Fairfax County schools and was involved in the construction of many schools in the county. He is now Asst. Superintendent with Arlington Public Schools. The Church school is good public policy. Currently Flint Hill ES has a capacity of 688 students and enrollment of 770, with trailers used for the extra children. Louise Archer has capacity for 489 and enrollment of 633, with 5 trailers. The County has a deficit in this region of 453 students in the capital plan (available on the web) to grow to 572. The North County region has a deficit of 432 to grow to 1061. A 550 student school will help the taxpayers.

Bob Blair, Gerken Ave. Contrary to an earlier comment by the school representatives, the school will draw from other school districts, causing a net influx of students and traffic.

Tim Walsh, Woodrow St. He is concerned about well water pollution, especially cadmium from runoff. Is the church prepared to compensate the homeowners in the event of well contamination. Mr. Walsh - We will look into it.

Sigrid Lane, a 40 year resident of Vienna who lives next to Our Lady of Good Counsel (OLGC) school and has never felt the impact of traffic in the neighborhood. School traffic should not be compared to Mass traffic.

Melissa Walter - The intersection of Flint Hill and Vale Rds. must be included in the traffic study. The traffic engineers should have gone beyond just the min. requirements when conducting their study. Mr. Walsh stated that they were meeting the requirements set by the County, not the min. requirements.

Richard Madden, Oakton - His grandson attended OLGC, a 1/2 hour drive from his home, and the drop off and pick up process is very orderly and there is no congestion.

Denise Davis - She is concerned about high school students driving from Madison HS who use Vale Rd. after school.

Bill Webb, Glendale Ave - Concerned about the safety of Fair Hill school kids. There are no turn lanes at Fair Hill.

Robert Hamberger, Rocky Branch Rd - Kids walk to school but not on sidewalks. They are forced to use the road; there are not sufficient sidewalks. Mentioned that Vale Rd is often backed up from Hunter Mill Rd in the morning. As a neighbor of the church, he receives a newsletter from the church, and the new school proposal was never mentioned.

Hazel Foot, Oak Valley Dr and Vale Rd - At 7:00 a.m. Vale Rd is often bumper to bumper.

Pam Givens, Stryker Ave. for 27 years - At 8 a.m. it is almost impossible to make a left turn onto Vale Rd.

At the 1/2 way point of the public comment period, Mr. Stowers asked for a show of hands on the following questions. An estimate of the responses is included:

1. How many people oppose the application? 45%
2. How many people are in favor? 45%
3. How many people think that more information is needed or that some change to the application is needed? 10%
4. How many people live within 1 mile of the church? 90%

Nelson Barry - Asked for a show of hands of parishioners with children who are eligible to attend the church school - 10% or less.

No name - What is the Church going to do to alleviate traffic in the neighborhood?
Mr. Slade - We are attempting to show how we can accommodate the student generated traffic. The school will submit a traffic management plan.

Does the church or traffic engineers know how many cars there are at Sunday Mass? No.

No name - Will Gerken Ave be extended? Father Culkin - No.

Morris Kelly, Oak Valley Dr. - What will the church do to ensure that traffic flows. No answer.

Joy Lane resident - If the Vale/Hunter Mill intersection is currently a Level of Service (LOS) class D, how can it remain a LOS D with all of the planned additional traffic?
Mr. Slade - He explained that LOS D covers a range of traffic volumes and that the increase due to the proposed school may not create traffic volumes beyond that range at that intersection. He said that he would provide calculations to show what that change would be.

Mr. Lizardi, LU member - Is sympathetic to the residents concerns about increased traffic, and thinks that although the church may not be able to resolve them, they must be sensitive to the concerns.

Mr. Stowers offered to take calls from concerned parties at 703-742-0707

Ms. Rice - Asked the applicants to show how traffic will flow into the campus. Mr. Slade - Vehicles will form a loop through the entrance and parking areas in the morning to drop the children off. In the afternoon, 3 or 4 lines will be formed in a holding area in the parking lot where parents will turn off the vehicles and wait.

Ms. Frankel - Would the applicant consider development conditions? In a similar case the Emmanuel Christian Church at Backlick and Braddock expanded their school to 500 students. The church set up car pools in advance with a goal in the conditions of 2.7 students per vehicle. The school will report periodically to the County on their progress. Church - Yes.

Ms. Frankel - Regarding the Vale Road Coalition, why are they concerned about cadmium pollution? VRC - A USGS study has shown that cadmium pollution is possible when there is vehicle runoff from asphalt. Supervisor Hudgins' office has a copy of the report.

Ms. Barrett, a civil engineer for Walsh stated that because the new structure will be located on some of the current parking area, the parking lot size will not increase. Also, there currently is no treatment of the runoff, and after development there will be a sand filtration system.

VRC - Sand filtration may not be adequate, and the current system may already be contaminated.

John Tillman - The parishioners feel there is a need and responsibility for providing a Catholic education to their members.

No name - The main problem with the proposal is the location. Why not move the school closer to the center of the parish? Church - Because we own this land.

No name - Much of the Church parish is in the Providence District. Is there a rep. from that office? Yes, and she is taking notes and will pass on the info to Supervisor Connolly.

Trott Ave resident - What is the County responsibility regarding pollution of well water?
Cathy Belgin, County staff coordinator will look into the issue.

Mr. Wright - Most discussion has centered around use of vehicles to transport students. It is mentioned in the traffic analysis report that students may walk to school. Given the inadequacies of the current sidewalks adjacent to the school, does the Church have any plans for improving the situation? And, is there a walkway planned that leads into the church at the entrance?
Mr. Walsh - we will get back with more info.

Larry Veto, Madrigal Way - What does the Church plan to do with the open space on the property if the application is denied? Will it be sold?
Church - No comment.

Martha Holvar, neighbor and parishioner - The church has tried to address the neighbors' concerns but has been through a difficult decision-making process involving 10,000 people and $8-10,000,000. Once a decision was made, on Feb. 24, 2000 a letter was sent to the surrounding residents regarding the plans for the new school.

Diana Stuyvesant, OLGC teacher - Dismissal at OLGC is very orderly, and the parents are not allowed to cut through neighboring streets.

Ms. Follin - Turning from Echols onto Vale is very difficult. Suggests that the County discourage people from using Vale Rd.

Resident of Lakevale estates - He hopes that the Board of Supervisors can see the bigger picture and look at the impact of this development on the community.

Mary Shaeffer, St.Marks parish - 1 of 5 students go to Fairfax County schools.

Resident of Trott Ave - Will there be a traffic light at St. Marks entrance?
Mr. Slade - No, VDOT approves signals and one is not warranted at this location.

Mel Peters, Oak Valley Ct - What effect will not building the school have?
Mr. Glavin suggested looking at the deficit numbers of the County capital plan at www.fcps.k12.va.us.

Billy Barry, Trott Ave - How Late will the building be lit, and where are the lights located?
Walsh - There is a lighting design that is available. Walsh will do a study of other churches in their off hours to determine the typical level of activity and it will be available at the same time as the traffic study, in 2 1/2 weeks.

Holly Paul - No one on Vale goes 25 mph. Were other school sites considered?
Walsh - No, because we own this land.

Mr. Stowers - The next meeting will be on Sept. 19. The traffic study will be available at that time. If possible, the meeting will be held at the same location, Flint Hill ES. It may be necessary to have another meeting for a final recommendation, closer to the Oct. 12 Planning Commission meeting.