Providence Perspective


Interview Justin & Thelma Carlock
Conducted by Linda Byrne

Today is May 2, 2008, I am Linda Byrne and I am sitting at the home of Justin and Thelma Carlock at 9005 Southwick Street in the Mantua Subdivision.
The purposes of this recording are for the Providence Perspective History Project.

Good morning Thelma.

Thelma: Good morning, how are you.

Linda: I am doing well thank you. Your home is lovely and is just beautiful around these large trees. How long have you lived here?

Thelma: Since 1958 I believe in March but we actually bought the property in 1955.

Linda: And, how are you Justin?

Justin: Just fine thank you, hanging in there.

Linda: Tell me about yourself and how you and Thelma ended up here in Mantua?

Justin: Well we lived in Arlington and we always liked to be out in other than congested areas. So we look out in Annandale, Columbia Pines and we met the Akin Brothers down in Falls Church who owned property all the way out from Seven Corners to Fairfax Circle. I think this whole property was probably one parcel; I don't really know to be honest with you. Well, we came out here and just looked round, we saw the piece of property we wanted to have but it hadn't been developed yet so we kind of had to wait. We wanted the back of our house to face the South, as you can see the window walls that we use for heat in the wintertime so when they opened this property up they called us and we came up and bought the property and that is what started it. After a couple of years of cleaning and clearing the property and so forth, I came up here with a sledge hammer and some stakes and laid the house out and one year later I had finished the house. I built it myself.

Linda: It is absolutely wonderful the way you positioned it here for the lighting.

Justin: We did that purposely. We were looking for this lot and Glen Aken was very helpful to us because he knew exactly what we wanted or basically what we were looking for and when this became available we took advantage of it.

Linda: How large is your lot?

Justin: Just less than an acre, about 8/9ths of an acre. So it is just three lots between Glenbrook and Barkley Drive. Originally there were five but due to percolation, because we did not have sewer and water and it would not perc so they had to make three lots out of it and that is one reason we have the lots so large.

Thelma: When we first came up here you came up Barkley Drive and you had to turn right and it just went down to the creek and there were black and white boards to stop you from going any further and they had just knocked trees down. That was Southwood Street coming this way so we had to park up on Barkley drive and walk in here and look at all the different lots and decided where we wanted to be. It was a long time ago.

Linda: Lets go back earlier. Thelma where are you from and how did you and Justin meet?

Thelma: Well, I was born in Washington, D.C., and when I was 6 months old we moved to Arlington. I grew up there and went to James Monroe Elementary School. I started in --------------- crowded and so forth because I lived in the Southside of Arlington Blvd. I had to go over to Thomas Jefferson Middle School for 6 months and back to W. Now???? And graduated from there in 1941. Then I went to work as a legal secretary and during the war a girlfriend and I had a vacation coming up and my folks had a cottage down in Maryland. St. Clements Shore, so my brother drove us down and dropped us off. When we swum out on a raft this boy I knew came out and he wanted to know if us girls wanted to go out that night so he came and brought this other boy with him. Then a couple of days this other boy shows up at our door with this great big tall sailor in tow. He was home on leave, well his folks lived out on Piney Point and he was home on leave because his ship was being changed into a APD from a destroyer escort.

Linda: What is an APD?

Justin: Assault Personnel, we carried troops in from the initial 1, 2, 3 landings. We had been in the Atlantic on submarine convoys and then we were converted to an APD from a destroyer escort which is basically the same except we had provisions to carry 120 troops and two Officers and made the Atlantic and went through the Pacific and we went through 13 or 14 invasions there and landing troops and so forth with the Navy.

Linda: Where were you from originally?

Justin: -----------Missouri is where I was born and I lived at Everton, Missouri most of my life where my father and mother and family basically lived. I don't know if the war had actually started or not but I was going to Missouri University, I had just started and the war came along and everybody went into the service just about. I wasn't quite old enough to go into the service so I got a job as an electrician apprentice and that is what started my occupation all of my life.

Linda: So you became and electrician, tell me a little about that and what you did.

Justin: Well, I started as an electrician and got my inside wireman journeyman electrician certificate just before I went into the service and after approximately 3 years in the service I came back out and that is when I was back out in this area. I started with H.P. Foley an electrical contractor in the District and I just got my 65-year pin for being in the union. But I started out as just a normal electrician and I worked up to where I was Supervisor, then Superintendent and then I was with other companies and finally I was with E.C. Ernst for about 20 years. I was project manager and project engineer for projects all over the country. I did hospitals, the Worlds Fair in New Orleans and I did geological surveys as a project manager and project engineer. I kind of went up in the company, which is normal if you work hard and I did real well and it was interesting. Then it came time to shut the thing down and I was 62 and I retired. That was basically what I did most of my life was in the electrical trade.

Linda: Did you do much work locally in Fairfax County?

Justin: Our Company did, but I never did too much here, but I had several small jobs over a period of time. I think I did one at the Navy Federal in Reston and a big building in Fairfax, the older government building (the old Courthouse) which everybody has moved out of now basically. I did US Geological survey, that was my project and I did projects in Annapolis, Maryland, Texas and Florida.

Linda: How has that field changed over the years?

Justin: Well, the electrical field when I started was basically just basic wiring in a facility a house or building. But with all the new innovations with electronics and so forth, when I was in the Navy I was in fire control which was really the beginning of electronics and it just advanced from there. I would say that now the electrical work in homes and buildings have tripled as what it originally started as. There are so may different things that go in, fire alarms, all types of equipment for computers, communications and everything is advanced now. Of course we had that then, but we didn't have it in the mass as it is today.

Linda: Thelma, can we go back to where we left off with this wonderful man being at your doorstep and continue from there. Thelma: Well we went out a couple of times and of course I had to come back home to go to work. He ended up in a fire control school in Anacostia so then he came to see me and so forth and then he had to go into the Pacific and we corresponded for two years. He then came back home and I guess it was 1946 and we were married in July of that year and we have been married almost 62 year. Linda: So then you lived in Arlington?

Thelma: We bought a house on Emerson Street and we lived there about six or seven years and then we rented a house in Jefferson Village before we moved in here. It took a couple of years to build the house on nights and weekends and things like that. It was hard really, but we made it and moved in but we had white walls, plywood floors and light fixtures on pigtails and that kind of thing. When we built the house we had one child and within a year we had another one and then another one, so we have three children.

Linda: Are they in the area? Thelma: One lives in Prince William, one in Calvert and one lives in Luray. Linda: So they all live in Virginia?

Thelma: No one lives in Maryland, Calvert County and that is my youngest daughter and our son is in Luray and our other daughter is in Prince William.

Linda: Any grandchildren?

Thelma: Seven, six girls and one boy and there is not a Carlock. Our son has two girls, the youngest was 6 last Sunday and the oldest is 21.

Linda: Tell us about the schools here when your children were growing up.

Thelma: Well, there wasn't any. Mantua school wasn't built when we came here and my daughter was going to Humpty Dumpty College, she was in first grade, it was a private school. Then when she started school, she went to so many schools Pine Spring, Cedar Lane and then they built Mantua up here and I forgot what grade she was in, and then they built Robert Frost and she went there. Then she got transferred over to Luther Jackson because of integration, we never moved from here but she went to about seven or eight schools because of building new schools due to population and people moving out here. Years ago there weren't any grocery stores; there was nothing out here. There were all woods out behind us here. Years ago she was going to have to go to school out on Rt. 236 but anyway they build Mantua and she went there for a couple of years I guess.

Linda: Did they provide transportation for the children?

Thelma: Yes, they had to or how would she have gotten over to Pine Spring. They were going to draw the line down here on Glen Brook and who ever lived over here had to go this way and the kids that lived across the street that she played with would have had to go off to 236. Anyway, they finally got it squared away. I don't remember if the brought trailers down to Mantua because of the overcrowding, anyway we have been here for all of the building and it has been quite a thing.

Justin: Sanford Hills did not exist in fact Barkley Drive if you turn and go to Langhorn Acres go about a block I guess it is just about 200 yards before you get to Lido it was blocked off because Mantua Hills did not exist, just Langhorn Acres. None of this, this is Section 4 originally did not exist we were out in the woods and there was not much here. When we bought the property there was stumps in the street. When you go back to the beginning it just gradually built up, the builder would come in and build a few houses and I think we were kind of fortunate because the kind of houses that were built weren't all a like. There were like of different styles, which made it nice in here, and it has been very quiet.

Linda: I think that is the beauty of Mantua, it is just lovely winding roads and all the houses nestled in large old trees and it is absolutely gorgeous.

Thelma: Sedgwick Street ended right down here, it crossed Glen Brook and then there were the black and white boards to cross and that is as far as it went. You had to go clear to Camp Washington were there was a Safeway Store, there wasn't anything. I guess you could go down to Seven Corners a Giant Store was down there. Then Safeway started building grocery stores and then they came down to University Shopping Center so that made it nice and then they built another Safeway down Cedar Lane and then they came back and started closing them all up again. So it makes it kind of difficult Safeway is now over at Pan Am Shopping Center. Then are grocery stores down at Pickett the Giant is gone from there and I don't know what is going on, it is kind of strange.

Linda: Now the integration that you mentioned that happened at Luther Jackson, tell me a little about how that went.

Thelma: Luther Jackson was a well-run school for the colored people and the parents really supported that school. I don't care what night you went past that school there were many cars, they really supported that school. They were upset when they changed it and made it a middle school.

Linda: Was it a high school before?

Thelma: I guess it was a high school, I don't know much about it just that some of the people were upset over what happened, both black and white but I think all the kids got along. I don't remember anything happening or any problems, it went along real well. I think our daughter only went there half a year or something like that because whatever time of year they integrated it and so forth. Justin: We went over there several times and met with some of the parental groups and it was real nice every time we went over there. We did a lot with our children and were very supportive of them during their school, activities and YMCA, Annandale Football Club and all of the activities around. Everything we did, our children were part of it.

Linda: You mentioned different things you did with the children; talk more about the kinds of entertainment and activities.

Justin: Actually there wasn't too much here, Annandale was kind of a hub for activity. I forget the person's name, but I was a coach for the football team and started off with the little boys about six or seven years old and I took them up until they were about 13 or 14, which upset me because after 13 or 14 there wasn't anything for them to do. I coached them all through those years and the same way with the girls with my daughter Leeann in the YMCA, I coached with a lady down the street here we handled the girls softball team and we went all around to the different churches and places the county provided but there wasn't a lot to do. I think now there is more because the schools have more going on now than we did then, it was pretty quiet here, really.

Thelma: There was roller-skating in the gym down at Mantua School every Saturday morning and that was fun. I ended up buying roller skates and he already had roller skates and all the kids had them. Justin: We handled that for a long time. We saw that the skates were put up and stored, and made sure the kids didn't break their legs and arms and stuff. We more or less did everything on our own there wasn't anything to do. Then they build Mantua Hills and that kind of quieted things for a while, there was kind of a mix that wanted to do things they wanted and things kind of died out, I didn't know what was going on. But since then our kids have grown and left so we are not involved with the activities like we were. I am quite sure Mantua School still has a lot of thing going on and so does Mantua.

Linda: So when you were coaching and your children were involved in these activities that would have been in the 50's and 60's?

Thelma: Yes, especially in the 60's. Our daughter was born in 52', son in 60' and the other daughter in 62'. So we have been involved in the girl scouts and boy scouts and all the different things that kids are into and we use to go camping and our son got interested in rocks and we got into rock hunting and we spent about 20 years doing that.

Justin: We went all over the country and Canada collecting rocks and we still have a big rock collection.

Thelma: He got into Lapidary, and then he got into goldsmithing and silversmithing and all that kind of stuff so it took a good bit of out time and it was something you could do with the kids. We could go into quarries and mines and things like that.

Justin: Well we traveled all around; we would go around Lake Superior and Canada with the kids and they enjoyed it. That way we could be with them and it was just a lot of fun and they all looked forward to it, and we spent a lot of our summers, when weather permitted between the winter and summer and in fact during the winter time I was Assistant Scout Master and we did a lot of camping in the winter time. It was strange because in the summertime most all of the families were on vacation or going places so the scouts did not do much in the summer but in the winter we went up in the mountains and different places, survival camps and there are a lot of big stories about that. But those were just things I guess that all parents should or be involved in.

Linda: We are speaking to Justin and about his work and where that took place.

Justin: I mentioned the Worlds Fair in New Orleans, the Louisiana World Expedition were the developers and designers and I guess they more or less ran the project, we did all the pavilions and I don't know whether Rouse Company out of Baltimore had anything to do with it or not but we did it all the way from hotel all the way down to the bridge which I guess is a good 3/8 of a mile with pavilions all through the World's Fair.

Linda: When did you finish it?

Justin: In 84', I think that is when the Fair opened. I was there just about a year when it opened and that was kind of unique and much different than what I had done before. We had all these pavilions with people from all different foreign countries and we had to deal with these people. I couldn't speak their language and they couldn't speak mine and it made it a little more difficult, but we got through it and we got the World's Fair opened. Of course they had the Columbia, the Shuttle down there. I took my son there, actually I would take my wife down and she would stay a couple of weeks and my son was with me a couple of weeks and during that time he was there they brought the Shuttle in so he got to see them bring it in an put it over on the pier right next to where our trailer was and it was exciting for him.

There were a lot of different things you don't normally get to see. The company I worked for did a lot of work at the Cape so it wasn't new to me but it was something I thought unusual. They built the big Tram that went across the Mississippi River and that was interesting to watch that being built. In fact, everything I did during my electrical experiences, I enjoyed it. Towards the last years almost became too difficult due to the fact you almost had to have a lawyer or attorney with you for everything you did because that is the way business is getting today. It use to be a handshake but anymore putting it on paper is not going to exist. I really enjoyed it but I don't know if I would ever want to do it again. But, whatever time I did spend there was good. I was offered to go to Philadelphia to take over the Branch Office there but it was getting later on in life and I had been away from home so much and we liked it here so we just stayed here. I didn't want to leave and about four or five years after that I retired, so it was a good thing I didn't go.

Linda: Thelma was that hard when he was working in another place and you were here with the children?

Thelma: Yes, because all of our children had asthma. If you have ever been around an asthma attack at 2 am it is pretty scary. I think he was gone for two years n Cumberland working on a hospital up there. He would come home Friday night and leave Monday morning and I was here during the week without anyone. It was scary, it really was but fortunately I don't think I ever had to take anyone to the hospital, they only did that when he was here so that worked out real well. It was hard, I remember all the leaves and I wouldn't let him cut down many trees here - I guess he had hurt his back and I had to rake this whole yard by hand and then I was ready to have many trees taken down after that. It is still hard, but we have a vacuum on the tractor so it makes it a little easier. But, back then it was all on me because he was gone a lot. He was in Annapolis for two years and came home about eight o'clock every night and the kids were small so by that time they were all in bed so they only saw him on week ends so that part was hard. Linda: How was the commuting between here in Mantua and Annapolis, and you are talking about what years?

Justin: Probably the late 60's or 70's. I had an Impala and a New Yorker and I am trying to relate the years to the car. There wasn't any problem it was about 50 some miles from here to where the project was and it would take me about 35 to 40 minutes. The Beltway was opened and of course Rt. 50 hadn't expanded like it is today, and that is over in Maryland but we didn't have a lot of traffic. Now on Friday afternoons getting home was a big problem but other than that unless something special was going on or they had a big accident or something like that it would take me about 35 to 40 minutes at the most to go back and forth.

Linda: It could take that to get from here to Seven Corners now or sometimes even Tyson's Corner now.

Justin: It may take longer than that, it depends on the time of day you go over there. Like if we go to Clyde's or some place like that, my gosh it takes an hour to get there.

Linda: And it is really only a ten-minute drive.

Justin: When we first came up here it was a crossroad at Tyson's Corner. There was a little old store sitting in the wedge where the two roads came together and that was it. It didn't exist but nothing up here did either. The company I was working for did the electrical construction at Tyson's Corner and we did a lot of the work at Seven Corner's when it was built so it has all been built since we have been here.

Linda: So at Tyson's Corner, tell me more about that.

Justin: Well I don't know the exact buildings but I did some office buildings there but I don't about the other part of the company because we were assigned certain buildings and projects and other engineers were assigned certain projects so I don't know what all the other engineers did. I had two or three office buildings that were built there.

Linda: Tell me again the name of the company.

Justin: E.C. Ernst and it was one of the real old contractors. Howard P. Foley was one of the original companies I worked for and then I went to E.C Ernst so those two companies are the ones that I spent most of my time with before I retired.

Linda: Lets move on the county government. How have you found the county government in your years here?

Justin: I may have mentioned earlier that it is like any other county I assume. It is political and driven by politics I guess and driven by money developing certain areas and so forth but I will say that it has been my experience that it is probably equal or better than most places that I have experienced. It seems to be better organized or it seems to be. I was on the Electrical Board for 20 years so I have had some experience or association with the county government so you learn a lot about the inside of what goes on at least in your part of it. Which I think is fairly good or whatever you want to say. To me it seemed to be okay.

Linda: What does the Electrical Board do?

Justin: Originally we gave electricians or people who wanted to be electricians in the county an examination so they could get a permit or license to work in Fairfax County. A person with a state license we accepted them without an exam but everybody else had to take an examination either oral or written examination in order to get their license so they could work in Fairfax Country. We handled complaints for people who felt the contractors weren't doing the right type of work for them or hadn't done what they promised to do or hadn't finished their project. We listened to all those and tried to handle the situations as they came up. Toward the latter part the state became more involved and the county less involved because the state took over the licensing. That action kind of eliminated most of the Mechanical and Electrical Boards. I think now they have a skeleton Board but I don't know exactly how that works now. The people in Fairfax County were basically represented I think over the years. Of course a lot of people handle their own problems and don't go to the county and I think that one of the reasons is not knowing how to connect you self with the people in the county so they would hesitate to complain or bring things to the counties attention. But, I would say that we got a pretty good amount of things that happened that we were involved with.

Linda: What years would you say that was?

Justin: 60's through the 80's I guess it was 20 some odd years. The county sent me a, I wasn't able to go, recognition for over 20 years on the Board. Of course the Board was longer than that but that is just the time I was on it, of course now it doesn't exist. Most of the work is handled by the state and I don't know exactly how. I guess the Trade Licensing now is different when I was in there and I don't know how the state is handling it now. I know my son has an A License in the State of Virginia and he had to go to Richmond to take his test. I don't now how they handle the Journeyman License now.

Linda: You mentioned an A License and Journeyman License explain that please.

Justin: Well a Journeyman Electrician is a person who can go out here, and unless he has a contractor's license he can't take out a permit but he can go to work for any contractor as far as the county is concerned. He can work for not only our county but also other counties because he is State Registered. That gives him an opportunity and right now I don't know how they go about licensing Trades anymore it seems to have gotten out of hand a little bit. I know that I have seen contractors and I don't know if they are contractors or what they are, they come in and do work and I don't know if they have permission or not and I don't know if the Trades people that work for them are even licensed or even if it is necessary today. I don't think there is much control like it use to be, we had more control but there are more people and it is harder now. You see these trucks and white vans, blue vans green vans running through the area and a lot of them don't have names on them and I think that is a requirement in Fairfax County that if you are a contractor or in business you have to have your name and identification and telephone number, whatever is on your vans that you use for business. I don't know if that is a requirement or not, but it use to be. I don't know if the quality of work is any different then when we were handling it or if it is just as good now I just don't know. I see a lot of things that I don't approve of but that is just me, I am not the judge of any of that is just my opinion but that is just the way it is now. There is just so much going on, so much building.

Linda: So the Journeymen would be able to work for someone who had a license in the county and then you mentioned an A License?

Justin: Well he can be a contractor; my son is a contractor and has his own business.

Linda: So the would actually take a higher level of testing?

Justin: Yes, they have to apply in Richmond and they have to have Bonds and certain qualifications on how to run a business. It is a lot different now than it use to be. The examinations they use to give you were strictly on the Code; the National Electric Code as far as the electrical was concerned. Now they have gotten into more of the business portion of it because a lot of the contactors were good electricians or good mechanics but they did not know how to run a business and a lot of times got into quite a bit of trouble with their bookkeeping and the way they handled it. There is so much paper work involved now unless you are a graduate of Business Administration you could be in a whole world of trouble.

Linda: Is there anything else that you would all like to contribute to this interview that would be interesting to those people who would be moving into our county in the future?

Justin: Well you know I was just thinking the other day that when we first moved here that I was told and I don't know who told me, but that right on our property coming right through my property was the road that the Civil War from Alexandria to the old Fairfax Hospital, they came up this road and it goes right though our property and goes right to about 20 feet from where you are standing there was an old existing path through here. It is hard to tell because it was all woods, but I understand it was an old road going to the original Fairfax Hospital not what is up there now.

Thelma: Sibley's was a Civil War Hospital, now what is up there now where it is today but they brought them up from Rt. 236 through here. There were almost wagon ruts down there and you can see where they went through and I thought that was interesting.

Justin: That is a piece of history and I don't know how factual that is but that is what we were told and I assume the person who told us would not have made it up.

Linda: So actually that was a location for way back in the Civil War.

Justin: Yes it was the old Fairfax Hospital and I don't know just exactly where it was located but I assume it was in the area of where the hospital is located today, I don't now, but I thought that was quite interesting. It is history but so many things just disappeared and don't get written about or talked about and I just thought that might be something somebody else might know and if they read or hear this they might look into it further for the materials that might give that information. I wouldn't know where to start looking for something like that.

Linda: Well a copy of this interview will be in the Virginia Room, which will be the place to research that information.

Thelma: We bought one of these metal detectors and went to one of those clubs and I think that may be where we heard that. What was interesting here is just this block there were three houses on this side and three on the other and we were all about the same age about 34 to 36 years old and we all had a good time and everybody stayed here for years and years and it wasn't until the man across the street died and everybody started getting old and had to move but it was just a bunch of nice couples. Now we are the oldest on the block I think and we have the house over there has just been rented and there will be new neighbors there and this house over here is for sale, they are the second owners and they are the third owners over at that house. Things use to change up and down Barkley Drive, people would come and stay three or four years where people on this block were here for 30 or 40 or however many years together, it was really interesting and lots of fun.

Justin: Another thing is that when we came there to clear the property off, as you can see there a lot of woods but there were a lot more then. There were trees everywhere and a lot of Laurel but there were apparently a lot of Chestnut Trees in this area because we had about four or five large Chestnut logs lying in the yard when we first came here. We use to come up as I was starting to clean the lot off so we could decide exactly how we wanted to arrange the house on the lot we would come up with our picnic basket and park up at Barkley and Southwick Street because the road didn't even come down here, and we would come down and cook our little hot dogs or hamburgers or whatever outside here and we would work on the lot and clean it off. One day you can see how remote it was, we left here a little early but when we would leave I would clean everything up it there was anything left over I would bury it, such as food or something left over we didn't make a mess. I came back down because I forgot something and there was a Bobcat out here, a little short thing and I didn't know what it was when I first saw it but it was larger than a cat, almost the size of a dog and it had a little short tail and pointed ears and it was looking in the area of what we buried apparently he was here other times when we were here and he knew what to do when we left. Of course we had a table sitting right there, we had a kitchen table because the house wasn't quite finished you know and plastered or course we were finishing up as we moved in so we could sit here and see all kinds of animals, possums and skunks and I don't know what all because that was all timbers back in there. It was all real interesting when we first moved up here.

Thelma: We had lights all around because there was nothing here and I thought I can't live up there all by myself in these woods so I wanted all these lights on the outside so I can flip a switch and see what was out there because there were 32 acres back here behind us and nothing but trees.

Justin: We had deer come through here, as many as seven in our yard just recently. There are some bucks that come through here that have a tremendous amount of horns on them and they come through once in a while but since they built this house over here I have only seen one Doe a small one. There use to be foxes in the daytime you would see them going through the yard. I don't know if they are supposed to be going through in the daytime or not because we don't go out to check but we watch them go through. It has been pretty nice in the area, I assume that everybody that lives in the area enjoys the same pleasures, I assume they do but we have lost a lot of flowers and Hostas out to the deer. It keeps us busy.

Justin: We have it in our book that was completed in 1924 and my family had a lot of connections with the government because they were settling around the Washington area. And, according to our books history, which is suppose to be correct we have invoices from George Washington and so for the and the government at that time for rental at that time we were keeping their horses and various things in our barns that we were charging them for. I don't know how things were charged then. We went from there to the Southern Part of Virginia and into Louden, Tennessee and to Kentucky then Missouri and that is where I came from. Linda: You mentioned the Natural Bridge.

Justin: Yes, one of the Carlock families, when George Washington was surveying the Natural Bridge area and his name is right there on the Natural Bridge with George Washington. I don't know who scratched it on there but in the book of the Carlock family, the picture is in the book.

Linda: Before you switch to that the picture I am looking at in this book is the genealogy of MaryAnn Lee Carlock, the second wife of Abraham Carlock of Illinois and her lineage goes back to someone who I recognize, William Lee who is the brother of General Light Horse Harry and it says it is in 1776, so that goes back to quite a famous member of the family. Thelma you have an equally impressive book of your genealogy.

Thelma: My family came here back in the 1700's from Cornwall.

Linda: I have here in Justin's book the family of Abraham Lincoln linked with Robert E. Lee and Mary Ann Lee the second wife of Abraham Carlock. This is quite interesting how everything ties together.

Justin: Well, there weren't a lot of people that is what it is. So I guess that more of them got together than we do today.

Thelma: It is really hard to find something right away in the book.

Linda: If you find something later, you can always let me know and we will add it to your file.

Thelma: I know that my grandmother and grandfather were married in 1878 in ------------, Maryland and that is where my father grew up in Maryland. He came from a very large family of 12 or 13. This is the family store.

Linda: I am looking at a picture of a merchandising store.

Thelma: It is a lot of fun to read what had happened. I think a copy of the will is in here and the value of things just slays me. Why would you even put something in there that is worth 50 cents but it was listed as inventory. This is a picture of my mother and father, back in the good old days.

Justin: We put I a General Electric Heat Pump called Weathertron originally it was #5 and it came out of Orange, Texas. The first four they built and put out on the market or I the Jefferson Memorial the fifth one was put in this house.

Linda: What year would that have been?

Thelma: 1958.

Justin: This house was designed specifically for a heat pump. All of the upper floors and windows in the major part of the house at that time and are now, Thermopane. The insulation and construction of the house along with all the information from the Bureau of Standards and industry at that time as far as building a house insulated properly for heat pump, which was rather new at that time and all that was done here. The heat pump duct system or the air system that was put in had a supply return or supply unit that goes to every room. This is a big trunk line that goes to every room and it has a trunk line of return from every room which gives you temperature control in each room and the cost that we had originally computed with the power company and with the mechanical contractor was that we were to have a $1.37 a day as our cost for electricity. Now that is going back to 1958 and I think it came out on our monthly bills and evened out to just about that rate. We have since put new systems in but even today with higher efficiency systems and it only runs us about $130 a month and our house is total electric. I am not sure how many square feet it is.

Linda: Is it a three-bedroom home?

Justin: Yes ad we have a full basement. The whole house is electric.

Linda: I noticed the high ceiling in the living room.

Justin: Yes, we have Cathedral ceilings. And it is still less than what people are spending for heating oil or whatever facilities they are using to heat and cool their house. Plus they have to pay extra for their electrical bills. So people are spending. So we found the initial building of a house suitable for the conditions such as heat pump or whatever that type of system, it must be built for that specific type of system ad this house was built that way.

Linda: So you put in extra insulating and the Thermo pane window?

Justin: No, no. I don't know that it was extra but it was designed and it was called to get the results so we had to do a certain method of installing the insulation. A lot of insulation they put in now, this house is hut like they had silver inside, they had like aluminum foil on the face of the exterior, I guess it is the insulation that goes around the rafters and up and down the walls and so forth. It was all aluminum faced for reflective heating, all of that was done. Vapor barriers were installed an everything that was required at that time due to the knowledge of the industry we installed in this house and it paid off. It is comfortable we set the temperature at 73 degrees and it stays that way year round, we never change it. The relative humidity runs between 50 to 60 percent year round.

Linda: Now there was an extra something I think you told me before we started recording about something on your system where Thelma you were telling me there is no dust or very little?

Thelma: Like I said our draperies hung for 35 or 40 years here and I never took them to the dry cleaners because there was nothing on them. They deteriorated due to the sun rotting the lining on them, well they are hanging downstairs so it is a very clean system it had a precipitator on it. We had a cat and if a cat hair went through the system you would hear it getting zapped and it just destroyed things. Our pediatrician thought it was really great that we put I this system because our oldest daughter at the time had Bronchial Asthma and would have these attacks where she would couldn't breathe and so forth. It helped the children a lot as well as me with no dust or no anything. I didn't have to dust the furniture or anything it worked out really great.

Justin: You would get a little surface dust but that was off the newspaper or off your clothes and off the rugs. Of course with the new vacuum systems that we have today they have with the Hepa filter that even eliminates it more so really the house is not hard to maintain. The heating system does not discolorate the paint inside the house and it eliminates a lot of the repainting very year or so, inside.

Thelma: This is the third coat of paint in almost 50 years on the walls.

Linda: Oh my goodness, it looks brand new.

Thelma: Just because you are tired of the color I like to change it.


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